What Your Posture Says Before You Say A Word — With Crispin Spaeth

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to Connecting with Super Kate. I am Super Kate, and I am joined today by my good friend Crispin Spaith. And I am just so grateful to have her here because she brings such a wealth of knowledge to the nervous system regulation that I speak to, to how we can connect with our bodies through all of the techniques that she has studied and taught over the years. And just her general groundedness and presence is a gift. So welcome, Crispin.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you so much for having me, Super Kate, the most super of supercates. Thanks. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

I was, I just I feel it's so crazy how some of these events that we do as entrepreneurs, and you just you never know who you're gonna cross paths with. And we literally had, I think, one, we were in one meeting together and we connected, and it's been three or four years now. So awesome. Yeah. And Crispin is joining us from Seattle out there on the lovely West Coast. Oh, and I would love for you to share how like share a bit about you, honestly, and what you are passionate about sharing with the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Oh, thank you. Um so I'll go outside the kind of canned canned response or the well-practiced response. I'll reach, I'll reach a little further for you today. And um, you know, I have always been a student of behavior and movement and how movement communicates what's happening on the inside, or or in some cases doesn't, which is also a tell, right? So um, and this has been since early childhood where you know there was a lot going on in the house, and I like had to kind of read the vibes and figure out what was happening. So um, and then I found a life in dance. I had a career as a contemporary dance choreographer, so I was taking these like big cultural ideas and moving that through um bodies into expression of those ideas and of themselves. Um, along the way, I discovered this thing called the Alexander Technique and started studying it almost almost 35 years ago now, and that's been a huge part of my life. Um, I became official with it in uh 2017, got certified and became a teacher. And that's really the foundation of everything that I do. Along the way, I've studied a zillion different things. Some of them are like great additions, and some of them I'm like, well, you know, Alexander Technique already does that. So I'll just I'll just they stay close to my home base.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Fantastic. And was it through a dance class that you learned about Alexander Technique, or did you seek it out because of something?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

That it was accidental. I it was through I was working at a theater school. So part of how I got by as an artist in Seattle, where it was it was a for it was I could afford to live here, but I had a lot of side hustles, you know. Yeah. Um, and one of them was working in the theater school. And Alexander Technique is often taught in theater schools or to musicians for, you know, access to people's coordination. In acting, they think of it this new your body and your mind and your whole self as your instrument, right? So accessing all those things and bringing them together so that you can pretend to be someone else through your character, or in my case, in my uh life, be a more authentic person and notice when things are getting in my way. Um so that's where I found it was in a theater school, but the applications go way beyond performance.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

That's that's awesome. In in all of the theater that I was a part of, I mean, to be fair, the I was a theater major in in a University of Oregon for those up in the yeah, Northwest over there. I don't know all the things we've talked about. This was not one of them. I know. How is that possible? We do have some crossover, but not specifically like in the yeah, I wasn't a location, like I wasn't based in Seattle ever, but um, yeah, theater. Uh I knew I was a back, like a background backstage, you know, person, but I did the acting classes. But it the school, I at that school they were focused um more on uh I think it was Stanislavski acting. And um there wasn't that I can remember, to be fair, I wasn't in more advanced classes, but that I remember there weren't conversations or classes around how the body connects in all of it. But, you know, public school, so like who, you know, maybe that just wasn't a deep enough, you know, a deep enough program for that to be there at the time. I got into dance later in like my early 20s, but didn't hear about Alexander technique until a friend of mine who was teaching it down in Southern California brought a workshop over to Kentucky where I was at the time. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. This is a very slow practice, it felt like at the time, but the workshop that we did was really impactful. And I still use some of those today with like some of those exercises today for my own personal being, but it certainly was not the extent to which you have studied, because I never studied it, I just had a workshop. Right. I have always felt like I was a like connected to my body because I've done the sports and I've done the dance my entire life. And this was something else. Did you have that moment when you going from contemporary dance into the Alexander Technique where you sort of had like an eye-opening? Oh, this is a feeling I have not connected with before.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

It was really my first moments um uh in my first Alexander Technique class. And uh what I now could that have been just the energy of my teacher, it's possible. Um, but what I I chose to believe it was the process, which was why I was hooked very quickly. Um, and it didn't what what it felt like at the time was um like my whole body became awake in a way that it had been compartmentalized before. Now, in my dance training, so I I really envy the people who, when they were little people, had like jazz and tap and ballet. That was not what I had. I had uh Graham technique and Cunningham technique because I grew up pretty close to New York City. So we had modern, which I also love that I had, but I envy the tap dance really. Um me too. Yeah, and that'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Always wanted to do it, couldn't figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Just terrible. Yeah. Um side story. I once had my some of my dancers who were really good tap dancers, and we had these very abstract dances, and I had them like translated into tap. It was uh it was gorgeous, it was so cool, so fun. Oh I don't know if I do.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

I should look for that. Yeah, okay. That might be a little side quest of this of this episode. Cut to this particular dance contemporary dance, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah. But the so there there was no translation required really going from contemporary, you know, going from dancing to because it well, it really was a way for me to approach movement in a new way. So I could see more clearly what I what I had been choosing and what I wanted to choose in movement. Um, and I mean there was tons of practical reasons to do Alexander technique, like I didn't have to go to the chiropractor as much or the massage therapist, and you know, as a poor starving artist, those were like really big ticket items. Yeah. I didn't just didn't get it injured as much, and when I got injured, I could recover it more quickly. So yeah. Um, it was a real support to my the physicality of my life, and then also supported my communication and my creativity, like choosing what to think about. It's like, oh, I can direct my thoughts to really work this problem in a new way that before it was sort of I won't say innocent, but it was um only instinctual rather than instinctual and kind of having a strategy for how I was going to go about making something. So I don't know, it helped me. Can you can you give an example of a situation where that applies? So uh maybe I'll choose something more contemporaneous. So yeah. Combination of me and maybe a client. So this is kind of a semi, semi-fictional, semi-autobiographical situation. So let's say somebody is working on networking. Yeah. Right? So walking in, meeting new people, and you know, they feel like they just have to get past this nervous system thing by repeating it. I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna suffer through, and eventually I'll get used to it.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Sound familiar?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

So, and yeah, practice does help a lot of things, but if what you're practicing is being scared while you're doing something, that being scared is gonna be part of it.

unknown 10:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

So when we practice something with more specific strategic intentions, like I'm gonna walk into a room knowing that I may or may not know people. I if I see someone I know, I'm going to go say hello to them. If I don't know anyone, I'm gonna introduce myself to three people, like really having this plan for myself that I've chosen.

unknown 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

And then I get to re-choose in the room, coordinating all the way toward it. And when I say coordinating, that's bringing your whole moving, thinking, communicating self into the room. That's like getting to that coordination part. That's the work that I do with people before they get there. Yeah. So there are some some tricks and tips to that.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

But is that a is that a good example of strategy for and I think that's a a good tie-in to really what started this conversation to begin with, because I you had posted on LinkedIn about showing up with the sort of the false sense, the performative sense of confidence and over puffing and leading with the chest. And I that is very much something that I feel like I spent probably the better part of my teens into my mid-20s doing both as a as a form of a wall to you know to block anybody from seeing the the the lack of self-esteem I had, but also I wanted to take up space. And I felt that was how I at least I was it was modeled to me that you take up space and people know who you are, and and clearly you're you know what you're talking about if you show up that way. So when you had this video about overpuffing, and I it just it really resonated with with past superkate because I once I began to notice I was doing that, and to be fair, a lot of that had to do with lower back pain that I was having. Eventually, I was like, oh, you were like staying out of your back. Yeah, my ribs have been flared for years. I I see, yeah, you know, and it's because I'm arching my low back, because I'm lifting up my chest and all of this stuff, and it it's it eventually like made me really pay attention to how I then ground myself when I'm recording a podcast or going to an online or in-person networking thing. Like, how am I showing up now? And how can that possibly be an even bigger energy than what I thought was attempting to put out at the time? So I would love for you to go through like what brought you to post about overpuffing, like what that means for everybody listening.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

I think that um one of the reasons people come to well, certainly back pain is a reason that somebody might come to me for having taken on this posture for so many years that puts a compromise in your lower back. Um, the other thing is is I'll call it authentic confidence. Like people want to feel like themselves, and there's some language around confidence that has to do that that does it just results in this this pose of taking up space that isn't actually taking up space, right? Yeah, so I can go like this. My mall, I'm not any larger of a person, and if you you know look here, um it's it just doesn't add up with confidence. Like if I'm really confident, can't my back be involved? Can't all of me can't I just show up as is and believe that I have the energy right now. Are there skills around growing and looking bigger for a second? Yeah, but I think as I said in the video, when I do that, you can kind of hear what's happening in my voice. It feels terrible from the inside. So the aesthetic of confidence is I don't know what the sources are, it's probably very um masculine, bro, you know, old masculinity shapes that people are trying to take up that um don't reflect what I'm interested in. Right. I think I mentioned to you in another conversation when I work with um a few older gay men that have come to me and they're performing masculinity in a way that they had to when they were little, and maybe you had to when you were 20 to be the badass pickup space person that you needed to be then, right? So yeah, out of necessity, we do these things, but it doesn't always match who you grow up to be, or once you reach safety, do you have to keep that performative armor on? Maybe not. So a lot of this work is like updating what's really required, what's necessary to help me express myself, keep me safe, do all the things.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah, amazing. And for those of you who are listening, uh Crispin was just sort of sharing that that the imagery she was lifting her chest, opening her arms a little bit out to the sides, that sort of gives that I'm presenting appearance, or I'm you know, a little bit of a superhero. Yeah, yeah. And oh, that leads me then to for a period of time, there was the whole superhero stance um that oh Amy said her name. Amy Cuddy. Yeah, that she brought out questions about the research behind it now. But I do know a lot of people who felt that that power pose of hands on the on the hips and lifting the chest and chin up was was helpful for them. So how um, and this kind of connects with a little bit of a thought I was having before we jumped on when in when I was in sports, we would have the the pregame huddle and that building of energy. And how do we navigate the moments of maybe we all puff up for a moment and then get into that settled grounded space? Do you I guess coming back to the power pose, do you feel that is a helpful thing to get the momentum going? Or is it really more of like, no, let's find the connection internally and maintain that because that is gonna that's gonna hold you longer than that adrenaline rush of the power pose.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Um, you know, uh I know a lot of people love it. So I would never want to take away anyone's pre-performance ritual. Like anything you do to help you say, I'm transitioning now from daily life to this possibly extraordinary thing. I recognize that it's a challenge for me and I'm gonna do what I have to do. So that's my my first stop is if it works, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Yeah, yeah. And building in a pre-performance uh ritual can help everybody because we do go into this elevated um chemistry. The chemistry changes, unless it's just like your everyday thing and you feel nothing, it's possible for maybe day actors on a on a soap opera. Maybe maybe they don't get that. But for most of us, getting on stage is not a daily activity, right? Right. Um, so there are other ways to think about that change in chemistry and to say yes to it rather than try to make it go away, or even um just really focus on what it is you're trying to do with the opportunity and or who it's for. So I don't even really talk about grounding because when people bring grounding into it, they often add a lot of pressure through their legs, the lower body. And here's another thing, and you can see what happens here. So, what I'm doing is I'm sort of pushing my pelvis forward a little bit to add energy to my legs, and this also impacts my breathing. I'm gonna run out of air in just a moment. So I'm often talking people out of grounding into connecting to your intention. Might be the same, it might just be a language thing, but connecting to um your intention, noticing all the aspects of your body, the stuff that's not touching your ground. I'm wiggling my fingers right now. The stuff that is touching the ground, I'm pointing to my feet. Um, so all of these are just different experiences of different aspects of my body that are in this particular relationship to gravity right now. So I'm really looking at the whole self as you meet the moment.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I do talk about grounding, and I appreciate your perspective on the word. I do, and and the physicality of that. I have definitely found when my body wants to embody grounding, when I hear that word in my head and how that echoes through my body, I almost release my pelvis a little bit, soften my knees. But this I think is very uh connected to the dance that I because I spent so many years doing fusion dance with a lot of belly dance influence within that. So your hips had to be isolated in a sense from the the upper parts of your body. And so when I think grounding, my hips sort of release like a a bell on a string just drops down. Um but I also know that. That there is a heaviness that I don't want within that grounding. And so then I have to remind myself the grounding are the roots. You are still the tall oak or whatever tree I'm really resonating with in the moment. And so that sort of brings me back up into that connected hips are now back attached to my spine and not dangling below with with you know no connection to how the rest of my body is presenting. Right. But yeah, it words, they're just not enough words, and also at the same time there, because there's just so many words, and we all think of them differently.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

And yes, what an adventure. Language is it's wildly imprecise language to describe human experience. But I think this is a great, a great example of two interpretations of the same word. Our intention is the same, right? To yeah kind of let gravity do its job and respond with that um life-filled energy that's in this current gravitational circumstance, right? Right. Probably in similar circumstances right now. Yeah. And and yeah, if I see somebody over like that, we we talked about the overpuffing, then there's some people who are like extra up. I'm kind of standing on my toes a little bit, kind of like, oh, I'm it almost like you can imagine a kid at Christmas being easily anticipating something, right? People who bring their show their excitement in that way, that's where I'm like, okay, let gravity have its way with you. Because this energy is um not sustainable, and maybe an audience wouldn't love it if we're working on a public speaking thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Right, right, exactly. Oh, I mean, I have definitely even just in this is a call to one of your other videos that you posted. Um even just on everything virtual. If you're sitting down, that leaning forward is almost the same thing as being up on your toes that you were just talking about, but you have this video about leaning forward towards whoever is talking. I have done that so much of my life. And I I'm I think I can attribute it now to like really making them know that I'm listening, but also making sure I'm really listening. Right. And being able to relax or just sit upright and not leaning forward. There is a visual difference that the person speaking is gonna have when they see you either leaning towards the mic more and towards the camera more, and really I really hear you. Yeah, really getting in there versus I no, I'm I'm here in this space and I can hold you still or have the conversation make the presentation, but I don't need to force anything on you or expect you to handle the energy that's coming at you because even visually on a Zoom call, there is a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Right. And how does it feel from you to you from the inside to do that differently?

SPEAKER_01 25:37

It took some getting used to, and I still find my I it's my my instinct is to lean forward.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Um yeah, we want to be close to people.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

That's the good instinct, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And when I I've actually had to sometimes force myself to lean all the way back just to counter it, just say no, you are like step back, they can still hear you, you can still hear them, relax, and then I come back to a neutral position, and it feels safer, it feels I'm I don't think I am denying them anything. But yeah, I still really want to jump through that screen and give everybody a big hug. Like it's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

I think some of some of the the you know, the the the um posts that you're talking about are things where like I probably was talking more about about public speaking or just about, you know, when you're on a call, you want to make sure somebody gets that you're listening and understanding, so there's extra signaling because we're not in the same room. Yeah. Um what's what's really behind that for me is the function of me when I'm doing it. Like if I'm out here, well, a bunch of stuff is getting compromised in my system. Whereas here, I can go anywhere, do anything. And my expression, you know, I can jump forward and be more like signal more excitement than I can if I'm already there, right? Then I then there's nowhere to go.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Right, right. It's that same place that a lot of martial artists like the the sort of neutral stance that martial artists come from. Like you can redirect the energy if you were standing new, whatever their neutral is. I'm just imagining Bruce Lee just standing as if he's doing nothing at all. And then somebody comes up and he's like, does whatever he does. And yes, like, where did that come from? It's because he knew where he was at the time.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah. And you talk a lot.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

You know, kind of technically, if your muscles are already on to hold you in this in a position, so if he was already in some kind of I'm I'm not gonna imitate person here, but if he was already in some extreme position, right, his muscles are busy holding that extreme position. He has to get out of that before doing something else instead of just moving to the appropriate response.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Yeah, yeah. And that's yeah, the the responding versus the reacting, and and and I feel like if you're many of us have been in that constant reaction mode with dysregulated nervous systems. And so pulling back and allowing that response is such a hard transition, but such a huh, such a magnificent one to be able to understand and start shifting your life towards so that you can have the space, the time, the energy to do what needs to be done, as opposed to you're already in one place pulling back and then moving in a different direction. Um because you're starting then from yeah, like the negative place. If you're trying to do something differently.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Um Right. Yeah. Or like an activated place. You're already your energy is already headed one direction, you have to kind of retract it.

unknown 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yeah. It kind of makes me think of like you said react and respond. It kind of makes me think of um lost my train of thought. There you go. Kind of makes me think of nothing, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Oh, well, that I hopefully it'll it'll come back around and we'll tie back in. But it this also leads, you just posted today about um a new offer that you have called um uh on air ease. And oh that was, I was I could, I was like, this is exact, yes, yes, this is another wonderful extension of what you bring to the table with your knowledge and supporting people both speaking virtually and in person. I just I thought it was a great entitle. Love it, love it. So, yeah, can you speak to tell everybody what on air ease is?

SPEAKER_00 30:25

So on air ease is a is a really it's kind of a mini offer. It's um one private coaching session plus one group lab. So in the private coaching session, we would look at what's the thing that right now you're really curious about or that's getting in your way or showing up, whether it's on podcasts, on stage, on reels, whatever it is, my um, you know, my not so hidden agenda is economic empowerment for marginalized people. So yes, uh women, weirdos and queerdos are kind of my people. Um so I want to make sure that if there's an obstacle that and if the obstacle is your nervous system, you running out of breath, you feeling, you you translating, that you feeling like being an introvert and being on camera don't go together. Any any of those messages or internal feelings that might get in the way of you showing up in a way that's going to support your business, you're making money, you're getting that next um job, whatever it is that's that could impact your personal performance. And anyway, so yeah, so this would just be a little mini sample to say, like, okay, what's one thing that's affecting you? Let's see if we can sort it out. And then in the group class, you could put it into action. So if you were doing public speaking, or if you were just wanting to meet people, you could kind of role play that or practice that in a group. So much of the stimulus that we get that gets in our way is because of social stuff, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

So actually practicing this um coordination around people is a very helpful tool.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah. And is the is the group lab in-person, virtual?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

How does it there are two versions? So I do one in person here in Seattle, and then I also do online labs. Um, one of those is on Wednesday afternoons, one's on Thursday morning. So kind of um added some new possibilities for people so I can work with more people across the country and around the globe.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yay! Yeah, oh my goodness. This great offer, the opportunities to do it in having the chance to go through something privately, but then put it into practice in such a safe environment is really helpful. And I I find that some of the people that I've come across think that it's just a matter of pushing through and doing something, it's a matter of having the right mindset, it's just nailing that one viral video or whatever, and then they'll be fine. And this is what you're offering is to get through a little bit of that initial chaos, that hesitancy, but ultimately you're gonna be giving them tools that are going to really just extend their ability to show up more connected internally so they can be more connected externally.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

And yeah, there you go. Yeah, ding, ding, ding. Yeah, it's more connected so you can be more connected.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Yeah. Oh well, this has been such a lovely conversation. Oh my goodness, I'm so grateful to have you here. Uh and just in time, a cat is busting through the door. Uh I we'll see if she gets through. Um, I would like to know what is one thing that you are grateful for in your body today.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

In my body today, I was thinking about it earlier, so I I do have an answer. In my body today, I'm grateful that even at the ripe old age at 58, I'm still getting stronger. So that's uh I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Excellent. I love that. Yeah, strength. Um, I am grateful. I'm grateful that there are many things that I can do still physically that I used to be able to do much better even five years ago. But that my body feels ready to come back to those things again. Yeah. Yeah. Been doing more dancing recently, and it is in certain ways felt challenging, but my body says, I remember. You just have to give me a little more time. And yeah, but I appreciate that it still remembers because mentally I remember, but like, right, yeah, when that that distance that we we think never happened, like, oh, I could do a cartwell when I was six, of course I can do it now when I'm 48. Like, how would that have changed? It changes, yeah, it changed.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Yeah. So yes, yeah, I'm learning more about what changes. Yeah. Yeah. What falls away. And there are some things that fall away, and that's okay.

unknown 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

We don't need all of it.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

No, no. And there's other things that we gained. I mean, there may not be quite this quite the same thing, but man, to just to to have the ability, the the opportunity to continue learning. Like, what a what an awesome thing. Huh. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you again for being here. So appreciate you. Thank you for having me. And thank you all for listening. Um, I'm gonna put all of well, where's the best place that they can find more information, connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 36:51

There's my website, Chrispenspaith.com, or if you're a LinkedIn person, I'm also there. My name is impossible to spell, so I would defer to SuperKate to spell it out for you. Yeah, it'll be in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

All the connections will be in the show notes. Um, excellent. Well, I'm grateful to connect with you today, and I look forward to doing more in the future. Yeah, yeah. Sure, I'll see you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

All right, thank you, everyone.